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Hello. I just want make a quick comment about your billboard facing the 55 fwy. I saw it yesterday and was a slightly taken aback. If I’m remembering it correctly, it says,
“Atheism is philanthropy without mythology, peace without superstition.”
The issue I take with this statement is that it appears to be prima facie false. Sure, maybe there are atheists who are philanthropic and peaceful (no doubt the world is full of them), but does that (to you) demonstrate the position they hold theologically is too? That just doesn’t seem to follow. At bottom, the philosophy of atheism (and likewise for its counterpart) isn’t about philanthropy or peace- it’s about deities and whether or not they exist. The position says really nothing else. It may entail other things, sure, but what it entails isn’t the same as what it is about (just as a free market economy may entail certain pleasures and benefits but isn’t necessarily about those pleasures and benefits), right?
I worry people may be seeing your sign and scoffing at the moral presumptuousness of it. Objectively, taking the high ground (as statements like yours certainly may be interpreted as doing) is apt to misinterpretation and may even lead one to think of parallels from the Westboro Baptist Church- surely, a comparison no one absent a lobotomy would covet.
Also, even if the statement is intended to be an objective fact (that the philanthropy done by religionists is based on disingenuous motives which have their source in superstition and mythology), can you see why this likely isn’t a great way to clearly express the idea if your intention is to generate interest in your society? A similar statement could be said by the opposition: Theism is philanthropy without mythology, peace without superstition. If I am willing to call the works of many moral philosophers “mythology”, along with the belief that “the Good” exists in the face of the nihilism that immediately and apparently follows from atheism “superstition”, is my statement not equivalent?
Anyway, this letter has become longer than I originally intended to write and so I suppose it may be a good idea to stop here before it goes into your tl;dr folder.
You needn’t respond to this letter. If you decide to, however, please know I did not write with the intention of condemning your group or getting into a verbal poo-flinging contest. I hope that, if this does lead to a discussion, you know in advance I cherish above all else rational argument and courtesy.
I hope you, dear reader, and your group are doing well and wish you all a great day,
-Adam
Adam,
Thanks for that excellent posting. You give me confidence that believers and skeptics can co-exist, and stand side-by-side to do the right thing, helping those in need.
And if you find there is a heaven, you can put in a good word for us!
There is a heaven!
While important, good acts and good words don’t get anyone into heaven. It is a gift.
(admin – from John)
If the Backyard Skeptics were nearly as smart as they claim to be, they wouldn’t resort to lies.
(“Atheist message adorns billboard near the 55,” Aug 20)
Atheists’ Lie #1: “Atheism is philanthropy without mythology….”
In fact, I was born in a Catholic hospital in Illinois. My wife was born in a Catholic hospital in
Orange, as were my two daughters. Now please ask the Backyard Skeptics where in America they
have an “Atheist Hospital”? Name, city and state, please.
Can they name an atheist soup kitchen in Southern California? How about an atheist orphanage?
Home for unwed mothers? No, they cannot. They’ll just fall all over themselves making up silly excuses.
Moreover, Professor Arthur C. Brooks, formerly of Syracuse University wrote a lovely book documenting how much more generous and
philanthropic people of faith are compared to atheists. The difference is dramatic. The book is titled “Who Really Cares.”
Atheists’ Lie #2 (a continuation of their first lie, in fact): “…. peace without superstition”
Was it peace that motivated atheist Josef Stalin to starve, torture, imprison, and kill 40,000,000 Soviet citizens?
Was it peace that motivated atheist Mao Tse Tung to starve, torture, imprison, and kill 60,000,000 Chinese citizens?
Was it peace that motivated Pol Pot, Lon Nol, Kim Jong Il and the many other dictators to torture and murder relentlessly?
Please, don’t allow atheist liars to claim that these gentle folk “didn’t do it because of their atheism.” They assuredly did not
murder tens of millions on account of their Christianity or Judiaism.
Smart and good-looking atheists are not more likely to be correct by virtue of their attractiveness or intellect.
Furthermore, atheists are always laying claim to a higher intellect, when in fact intellect is no guarantor of rectitude or common
sense, by any means.
Please pass this message on to the godless leftists of Backyard Skeptics. They really need to stop lying.
Best regards,
John Jaeger
For-profit hospitals are essentially agnostic but until recently no one would take seriously the notion of a godless soup kitchen or a humanistic orphanage, but now that you mention it…
On the other matter, the cast of characters you refer to were each objects of a Cult of Personality and charismatic sociopaths without the emotional capacity for empathy. Their ability to conjure up a power higher than themselves, if even they did, would have been irrelevant to their ambitions.
As they say in the joint however, there are no atheists on death row.
you sir, are suffering from 2 vary serious conditions called psychosis and schizophrenia.
do some reserch on both of them to further understand why you think this way.
best wishes (not really) Slayer
I think the point is that people should do well for their fellow man without the threat of divine punishment nor the promise of heavenly reward. While there’s nothing wrong with that, so many people, religions, and churches use the power of faith to advance agendas of self-interest, claiming sole possession of the truth, and even commanding followers to grow their organization through reproduction or proselytizing. At worst, groups use faith to justify evil.
Do good because it’s the right thing to do. If you don’t know what the right thing is, just refer to the “golden rule.” If you still don’t know, then you need help, or maybe you do need religion.
While religion makes it simple for people to find guidance, an intelligent person should be able to figure it out without giving money to fund temples. The money would be better used to feed and house the poor.
“I think the point is that people should do well for their fellow man without the threat of divine punishment nor the promise of heavenly reward.”
Why? Not saying I don’t agree with this, I just want to know why you believe this.
“While there’s nothing wrong with that, so many people, religions, and churches use the power of faith to advance agendas of self-interest, claiming sole possession of the truth, and even commanding followers to grow their organization through reproduction or proselytizing.”
Is this, in itself, a bad thing? Do not ardent atheist parents do the same?
“At worst, groups use faith to justify evil.”
Agreed. On both sides.
“Do good because it’s the right thing to do. If you don’t know what the right thing is, just refer to the “golden rule.” “
On atheism, unfortunately, all we have is each other. None of us really know what is “the Good” (or what is righteous). At bottom, we just have popular opinion. The “Golden Rule” is as arbitrary is they come. Why ought I live by it? Why, if I’m sufficiently powerful and can get away with it, not just focus on maximizing my own pleasure and quality of life? Why isn’t that my ought?
“If you still don’t know, then you need help, or maybe you do need religion.
While religion makes it simple for people to find guidance, an intelligent person should be able to figure it out without giving money to fund temples.”
Lots of intelligent people wind up coming to religion, though, when they see the indispensability of a theological meta-ethical foundation for morality. So it cuts both ways.
“The money would be better used to feed and house the poor.”
Assuming we even “ought” to do this. On atheism, the idea that one mammal magically has an ethical obligation to care for another mammal is absurd and obnoxious. Where is this obligation coming from? There are no rules of this type in the animal kingdom. These ideas are imaginary and are created as ad hoc explanations for modern observances.
-Adam
it is impossible for man to do good. The problem with good works is that we rely on them to mask the other filth we got going on. Bottom line is, we are all still inept examples. We have all morally failed. We have all cheated, lusted, lied, stolen, cussed, had malicious thoughts, etc., etc. We have all committed these acts and will continue to commit them as long as we live. What examples can we possibly be? Who’s standards can we live by? Who created the golden rule that it makes it the end-all be-all? We break that golden rule anyway every day
Hello,
First let me say that I am not making my statements with condemnation. Yes, I am a Christian as defined according to Holy scripture not an institution.
The point I wish to address is that one should be able to do good because it is the right thing to do and not because of religions mandate. I agree. According to the Bible, one cannot enter heaven because of good works. “For it is by grace you are saved, not by works” Ephesians 2:8-9. On a different note, I am sometimes embarrassed by the radical proclamations that Evangelists, Preachers, etc., make. I also dislike that because I am a Christian I am often categorized into their belief system which can be skewed. If it is in the Bible, I believe it. Therein lies the problem, if one doesn’t believe the Holy Bible is the inspired Word of God there is no conviction for the truth it holds. I would challenge anyone who is a skeptic to take the time to read Lee Strobel’s book, “A Case for Christ”. His story is simple. He did not believe in God, and set out to disprove His authority and the christian faith. In the end, he could not. Don’t take my word for it, read the book and make your own decision. I believe that I am in a win-win situation. If I lead a good, moral life and die to find there is no God then I have led a good, moral life. If I die and find there is a God, then I am doubly blessed. Of all the faiths, it seems Christianity is the one that seems to get people all fired up. The name of Jesus still causes a stir after 2000 years. There is fact that he existed, and fact that he is the only God to ever come back from the dead. So, I’m banking on Him. If I’m wrong. . . well, I’ve lived with a lot of hope, happiness, joy, peace and a really good life even when the bad stuff happens. Best to you.
Kate, you said “If it is in the bible, you believe it”. Read page 532 of the King James Bible.
Hosea 10:13 Ephram shall bring forth his children to the murderer.
Nowlin, I read Hosea, I still agree with everything the Bible says. I would encourage you to understand the context of this scripture. I’m not sure I understand your point. If you need help understanding what is happening in Hosea, let me know. Or use an online commentary to research it. Lots of good ones out there. Blue Letter Bible; Biblegateway. Thanks.
I agree with Philippe and think that people should feed those without food, house those without houses and care for those that are in need. And I also think that there is no good reason for the worlds leaders to wage endless wars in the name of democracy or for any other reason. If one dictator needs to be eliminated or put in jail then do it. In this day and age you don’t have to kill millions of innocent people to contain or imprison one person.
Phillip,
You make interesting points. As for money, giving to any organization whether church, synagogue, etc., should always be carefully considered. They are only run by humans that don’t always make the wisest choices. However, if a person attends a religious institution regularly and is aware of the budget and how funds are distributed, giving to the church often relates to giving to the less fortunate and/or to a cause that the church agrees is appropriate. For me, giving is also an act of worship, my giving back part of what has been give me. Also, by deciding in advance where I give helps me to not respond to every one out on the street holding up a sign and asking me for money. There are many people on the street who earn quite a hefty, tax free income by impersonating the poor. I have volunteered for the Coalition for the Homeless, etc., and am well aware of the services available to those that are poor. Often when I see someone on the street, I will buy them a meal, offer water, or direct them to where they can get help. Where they find their practical needs met they will also find emotional support. Everyone needs and deserves that. So, I do think thoughtful giving is important and that includes churches.
Kate, I understand Hosea. How can you defend killing children, especially infants? How can you defend RAPE?
Philippe, WELL SAID!!!!but you have to admit that christians have a good selling point with life after death and heaven with streets of gold. It sounds better than burning in hell and scorpions stinging you forever.
It is impossible for any human on this earth to be good. God’s perfect law is the only standard by which the universe can use as a calibration. Without Christ’s law and grace, we are all just a bunch hypocritical examples of beings. We have all lied, lusted, stolen, deceived individuals, disrespected individuals, cheated, etc, etc. We have all committed those acts. It is a guarantee that before our lifetime is up, some of those acts will be repeated. How can we possibly be good, moral people. If it is by our own human standards, our philosophy has failed us miserably. Jesus Christ is the only answer in life.
Amen !!!! and praying for all the non believers, i wish for you to join me in Heaven someday, not in hell….
There is no heaven – There is no hell. I hope you will get over your silly superstitions soon.
So, let me get this straight:
With Jesus: No hot chicks
Without Jesus: Hot chicks
I think it’s obvious what the right choice is.
Religion has done more good than the evil that has resulted from the various clergies taking over the message and pawning off the believers to the kings for their endless wars. The main idea from the Messengers (if you will), including Zedek/Atum-Ra/Adam (from whom sprang Quetzalcoatl, The Bahana, Kukulkan, Veracocha, Heimdall and more), Moses, Krishna, Zoroaster, Buddha, Jesus, the Christ, Muhammad, The Bab and Baha’u'llah has been that each individual has a choice as to whether he or she will love Whatever It Is (no one has ever seen God/Allah/G-d/Ahura Mazda/The All-Merciful and etc) that brings all things into existence all the time. In addition it is to the benefit of the individual to do so as there can then be a connection between Creator and creation.
It doesn’t follow either that if one does have that connection that your government and all your schools will be religious. Not at all. It is imperative that the government and public schools be secular so that people have the freedom to believe as they choose. Throughout the ages, because man has a choice of whether to love the Creator or not, the clergy has been allowed to set up religion as government with the end result being the persecution of non-believers or those of banned religions.
Now that we are so much more evolved (education has spread like wildfire since books became cheap in 1610 AD) we can embrace a secular government that can allow the people from the various religions to freely practice what they believe to be true. Since each religion commands that people love their neighbor, amongst other things, and the atheists believe in doing good to all with no benefit accruing from God we can all live in peace with justice. The world will be a divine place to live, not the sh-thole that has been created by those who believe that there are those who are entitled to the good of this world and those who are not, that there are those whom God loves and those that are by default headed straight to hell (be it the hell of the faithful or the hell of the atheists, mainly experienced during this life on earth).
Life is hard for 95% (or there abouts) so why not make our lives a cause for easing up on the pain and suffering by finding the neighbor acceptable. Maybe people are grumpy and depressed because everywhere they go they feel like an alien. Lets make it so that everywhere we humans go we find friends who can understand us and accept us as we are. Moreover, let us make it so that if we are religious we follow closely the main tenets of the Message. Always at or near the top is “Love thy neighbor as thy self”. Today, as always, neighbor means everyone on earth. Its not the ones that you choose to love, not the ones who choose to love you the way you want to be loved….its everyone.
I’m as broken as everyone else is and I am making the effort to turn that around. I hope to see your kind face everywhere I go to remind me that my sometimes negative thoughts are a creation of my own poorly trained mind and not the way things really are here on earth. Once we all start down that path of fixing up our fixer-upper minds our hearts will follow and the world of humanity will have made a paradise on earth before we know it.
” Religion has done more good than the evil”
I’m sorry but everything after this idiotic statement can be disregarded as drivel.
Atheists don’t fly planes into buildings in the name of their imaginary friend. Atheists don’t rape children and then pray to their imaginary friend for forgiveness.
Adolf Hitler was an admitted catholic, and professed to be doing God’s good work. The Belt buckles of NAZI soldiers read GOTT MIT UNS, meaning God is with us. The Catholic church worked WITH the Nazi party and willingly turned a blind eye to the Holocaust. Now even with that, Can you still say religion does more good?
What about the crusades? What about genital mutilation? What about ethnic cleansing. What about ALL OF THAT DONE IN THE NAME OF YOUR GOD.
Don’t you dare assert that religion has done more harm than good. How many children have to be raped for every hospital built in honor of a saint? How many innocents martyred to spread the will of Allah.
If your god is real, than he is truly undeserving of being worshipped. To Quote Dawkins: “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
You have to remember that in addition to the God of the Universe there is well — spirit of darkness. The battles is between good and evil. God’s objective is to give every man the opportunity to choose. So please be careful to appropriately place blame. And, BTW, just because someone says they are a Christian or Believer doesn’t mean that they always are. We are all sinful, but saved by the grace (unmerited and unearned) forgiveness of God. I’m not sure I understand one would not want to serve a God who promotes love, joy, peace, forgiveness, mercy, …. I think it is all about people not wanting to be subject to an authority. Kinda goes against our grain. Sometimes I have even said . . . “really God, again???” But you know what . . . He is so amazing that He understands even the times that I am not what I should be. He better than anyone understands my sinful nature . . .and He loves me still.
I do feel sympathy for you. If you have ever been or will in the future be truly frightened and in complete terror, will you turn to yourself for comfort?
Actually – YES! OK – Lets say theres a lion loose and I see that this lion is charging me – do I pray to a mythical God to save me? NO! I find how I can evade being attacked by the lion. If you are driving and see you might get into an accident, do you release the steering and let Jesus ‘take the wheel’? Of course not. There is no supernatural deity and there never has been one.
Thanks for your comment. First, it is not correct to infer that I have never been frightened, scared, overwhelmed with despair, as I have been all of the above. But, I choose to pray and seek comfort in the fact that God is bigger than me. Therein lies the problem. God doesn’t want me to not work to take care of the “roaring lion” or “the steering wheel out of control”. He wants me to participate in my journey (although He already knows the choices I will make). That is why God gives us wisdom and understanding. It is a vast misunderstanding to believe that all Christians are passive, and wait for some deity in the sky to control their lives. It is not about control, it is about active participation to act the will and good purpose of God. I enjoy my relationship with God, and although I do not always see His purpose in things, I know that He always works to good. On a side note . . . as far as why do innocent suffer, earthquakes, war, etc. . . . well, we live not in heaven but an imperfect world filled with imperfect people making imperfect choices. Could God stop it . . . Yes, and He will at the end of time. BTW — while we all wait to see if rapture in the sky really happens — everyone has their own personal end of time — no one escapes it. God is more interested in the heart of man than anything else. Let me ask you a question, “would you rather someone love you because they choose to or because they are forced to?” Of course true love comes by choice. That is how God is. He could fix it all in the blink of an eye but He is giving everyone an opportunity to choose. So, if you choose to not serve God am I sad, yes. Am I going to condemn you, no. Do I pray that you will have a change of heart, yes. God has an eternal perspective. It’s like a parade . . . all we see is what is directly in front of us, we can’t see the end of the parade until it passes by. But God can, he sees it all and is willing to help us in the good and bad times. Suffering, injustice, hard times draws us closer to what ever the anchor is in our lives. It cause us to pause and reflect, it is a journey we are on, we are not robots and God is not the Head Robot. He loves us even when we don’t love Him back.
Kate – you’ve admitted your God is omniscient. you have to admit that when you pray you are trying to change your God’s mind. “He always works to do good” – even by killing 2 million people in Noah’s flood and the many other atrocities He committed? If you agree with this yhen you have really drunk the KoolAid. God loves me, but will send me to eternal damnation. How many people did the devil kill??SEVEN!
Jerrod…….Amen!!!!
I am an athiest, and while I don’t personally care about your group ripping up bibles in public, I’m not sure I’m OK with it.
There is a hostility in the action that is an implied threat. I don’t believe you’ll wake anyone up to rationality by attacking their most sacred book. This act of destruction is not rational, or compassionate.
Your group talks about peace, but this will not be peaceful. Acceptance is peace. Some people that I love come from families where their important rituals all happen at church. That does not mean they think disobedient wives should be stoned. They’re good to me, while knowing I’m not a subscriber. That is compassion.
Believers understand that a very old book like the bible will have out-dated details. They know some of it doesn’t work, even orthodox or amish people know that. Ascribing every word in the bible to every person who attends church is a childish, simplistic notion.
I don’t believe in god, and I tell people that who ask, but I also allow others their comforts, and accept that we all are doing the best we can. People are already falling away from the church, in droves.
One ancestor in my daughter’s family survived the russian progroms and escaped germany just in time. The others remained and perished. I took my daughter to temple as long as she wanted to go, through her teens, to honor the bravery and the loss, not because I believed one word in the torah. She knew every day that I was not a believer, even the rabbi knew it, but none of them raised an eyebrow about it. They even offered to have me run for the temple board!
Any group or cause that lacks compassion can become dangerous, regardless of the intent or ideology. No one group in human history has a monopoly on evil, if it even exists at all. We are all flawed, regardless of creed.
I suggest you call off the bible shredding and spend the day showing everyone acceptance and understanding and compassion. That will actually make you a better person, and it will make you right. The waking up is entirely their own personal business.
Jeanne, ripping up the bible in a public place doesn’t show as much hostility as reading the bible. Read page 533 of the King James bible.
Hosea 13:16 They shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.
Have you read about how King Nimrod was punished after he shot a arrow up into the sky from the top of a towering high building he had people labor to construct because he wanted God the creator to grant him whatever he wanted even if some of the things were evil. They say that this is when all the different spoken languages were created by the creator God as a punishment to King Nimrod. The creator God doesn’t like it when people think they are too proud a person to keep the laws he has suggested for them to follow. The Roman Catholic jesuit Vatican presidents have performed masses to the fallen angel called Satan and the Devil for over a thousand years or more. Orthodox Jewish people try to keep the special laws set forth to them that is why they have been protected from their race being destroyed. The Jewish people expect God the creator to keep his word not to scatter them from their homeland again which has happened in the past.
Regarding the tearing up of photocopied bible verses:
Any thoughtful person, Christian, Jew or atheist, will be troubled by some scripture verses. I take issue not so much with your decision to publicly tear up some bible passages in protest, as with what you chose not to do…. It’s cool and trendy to be at the scene of an anti-Christian demonstration. You’d have far more credibility if you had shown the integrity and courage to also destroy a smattering of offensive words from the sacred writings of other world religions – the Quran comes to mind.
As a Christian believer I really think atheists attacking crosses and Bibles is funny. Christianity is not about the symbols. It is a relationship with Jesus Christ. As hard as you might try, that can’t be understood let alone destroyed or even damaged by any action of atheists. As a matter of fact, opposition only causes it to grow.
In Europe Christianity has been nearly destroyed by making it a state supported institution. If you really want to make Christianity ineffective and irrelevant in the USA then you should support Government subsidizing it.
I opposed George Bush’s Faith Based Initiative because it would eventually get the government into the churches to maintain the the flow of money. Then the churches would then be neutered from the inside out.
I support your efforts to make fun of, put down, and stamp out all public signs of Christianity. It is exactly what we need to stay active and alert in our faith.
The destruction of the Bible demonstrates to all that Atheists aren’t against religion so much as they are against Christianity. If the Atheist is against religion then s/he would not have been upset at Terry Jones. Instead they would have applauded and perhaps assisted him in tearing pages from the Quran and burning it. But Atheists, most of whom are Jews and view Christians as apostates, would never do such a thing to enrage Muslims because they are in fact cowards full of hate.
What Atheists should know is Islam and Secularism will be the death of this country which will mean the loss of freedom for all of you to engage in your childish behavior- behavior that I notice many Americans are afflicted with. Islam destroyed Iran (my country). Secularism preceded by Nazism and Communism has destroyed Europe which will led to a dark age of hunger, destruction of the environment and war. If this is the world- a world of tyranny and persecution- that Atheists want then shame on all of you.
If Christians had their way, Christians would run the goverment!!
Jesus loves you guys. I hope you keep your hearts open. Don’t be close minded to things you may not understand . I watched as they posted your billboard on chapman. Not by choice but because i was working on the roof of a building .I thought wow these guys are evil , and you are . BUT so am I . So is everyone born into this world . That’s why God sent his son Jesus to die for us . Please do some research into world history and you will see this Man who walked this earth is awesome and full of love and forgiveness . But don’t test him .
I really don’t know where to start. It saddens me that God has hardened so many hearts.
In the section about Pascal’s saying or whatever you call it, you say that living a sinful life is fun if no god exists (in the graph). I would like to be shown a sin that has absolutely no consequences, whatsoever. Because you know you aren’t having fun when you’re suffering consequences, and not just those that God deals out, the worldly consequences too.
However Pascal didn’t have the right mindset either. Its true that you don’t lose anything from following a nonexistent god (dont say “fun” until you can stump me with a consequenceless sin), howeverif you’re only following God so that you have your bases covered, then you aren’t serving him with your faith, and you would end up going to hell anyway. Which bring up one of your “contradictions”. The reason Cain’s offering was rejected was because he didn’t bring it with a loving heart, but because he had to because he was doing it to attempt to make God happy so he wouldn’t be punished.
On a different note, I think, LOGICALLY (because you guys on here all like logic) your billboards are a waste of time, money, or both. I just don’t see how telling anyone who has any brand of faith that they are wrong is going to stop them from believing and become an atheist. I mean, I don’t care what you do with your money, but I would think you could find more useful (in your eyes) ways to use it.
Finally, please try to not be hypocrites. You promote peace, but instead of trying to unite all religions (which will never work), you wage war against them. And don’t try to tell me “you christians are hypocrites too”, because I know that. nobody is perfect. that’s not a justification, just the truth, as its impossible to get through life without contradicting yourself once. But if you want everyone to jump on the atheist bandwagon, show us you’re not like everybody out there. stop promoting peace, and starting wars.
That’s exactly what we are doing! Promoting peace and trying to make this a better world – just like the billboard says. You’ve missed the point of our campaign entirely. We say nothing about ‘becoming an atheist’ although that would be great, bit only if they mad a conscious choice to do so. I really don’t believe how others believe, I’m more concerned about how that behave according to religious superstitions. Who said anything about united all religious? What a ridiculous idea! Yes – Christians are hypocrites – and they are at the top of the list because they do not behave Christian-like in the least. They pick and choose what they promote from a bronze-aged text, and are no better ( and in many case worse) than the civil behaviors of atheists (see my prison study on the site) Bruce
I don’t believe Christians are hypocrites. Sure, some people say what not to do and they do it anyway, but thats human nature. This is the sole reason why Jesus died on the cross for us: to release us from our sins. If an atheist had actually tried to read a Christian prayer or attend mass, they would have noticed that Christians admit to being sinners. We don’t think we’re perfect. Also, if you’re trying to make the world a “better place” than why do you post terrifying billboards supporting anti-Christianism along our nation’s roads? Am I the only one that is surprised that there hasn’t been retaliation?
I would also like to say that your section on new testament scripture is quite possibly the best collection of superficial reading out of context that I have ever seen.
The one that struck me the most as “really? are you really, really serious right now?” was your use of 1 Peter 3:3. You used the Good News Translation so I will be a good sport and use the same, though the NIV conveys the message of the passage better in my opinion. Here is the FULL context – you only needed to add one more verse. Honestly.
3 You should not use outward aids to make yourselves beautiful, such as the way you fix your hair, or the jewelry you put on, or the dresses you wear.4 Instead, your beauty should consist of your true inner self, the ageless beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of the greatest value in God’s sight.
Please enlighten me as to what your issue is with this passage and how you believe Christians ignore it? Do you teach your daughters that their beauty and self worth comes from the way they look on the outside? That they should spend their time focused on dressing up the outside over anything else? The passage simply says that you should not use outward aids to make yourself beautiful. It doesn’t say at all. It teaches that true beauty comes from within, that if you are trying to make yourself beautiful by dressing up the outside, you miss the point. Those things are fine, but they do not make you beautiful. You are made beautiful by what’s on the inside.
I find it hard to take an organization seriously that really cannot understand the meaning of this passage. The only way you can boil it down to “Women: Don’t Dress Up, Fix Your Hair, or Wear Jewelry” is if you are really, really uninterested in what it actually says and are far, far more interested in trying to have a “gotcha” on a believer.
This speaks volumes about your organization’s agenda, BTW.
PS – Where’s your verses from other religions’ books that you take issue with? Nevermind, I know the answer. Also, I suspect this comment never gets posted, hope I am wrong.
Hello – As a friendly outsider taking a look at the big picture. Shouldn’t you folks be tearing out the pages of a Talmud or from the Tanak or other Jewish writings from back then when these archaic, and inhuman teachings were written. A majority of what you are attacking is actually from the Commandments, Moses’ teachings and other ancient Judaic writings. Is it the Christians that sourced these heinous things or is it the Jews?
This is a biblical/scholarly question and has nothing to do with racism.
Let me be clear, I am not saying that the ancient Jewish scriptures are ‘heinous’, wrong, etc. in any way. I am just saying that some of the things that you are tearing out of the Bible actually are from the ancient Jewish texts and were written long before Christianity. Specifically, the passage from Deuteronomy that the major news sources are printing. No foul intended, I am just a neutral, curious scholar. That’s all. I respect all good humans. Let’ try to get along!
Let me be clear. I am not saying that any Jewish written works are heinous or bad. I just wonder how many of the things in the Christian bible that you disagree with (and wish to tear out the Bible) aren’t actually from the ancient Jewish scriptures written long before Christ and Christianity existed. If so, what should you really be tearing up? I realize that there are a number of different kinds of Jewish person, there are a number of different kinds of athiest and a number of different kinds of Christian. Does your athiest group believe in the exsistence of God? Do you use the terms ‘negative athiest’ and ‘positive athiest’ and if so what do they mean to you?
Thanks for your time,
A friendly scholar thats loves juicy discussions
Let me be clear, I am not saying that the ancient Jewish texts are heinous, bad or wrong in any way. I am referring to the passages from the Bible that you single out to be torn out. I am specifically referring to the one cited in the major news feeds that comes from Deuteronomy. I just thought that Deuteronomy was part of the Old Testament from the Talmud. Just a scholarly question. I am Buddhist and friend of all people with a good heart.
Jeff, since you are interested in ancient writings. You might want to research the finding of the “Dead Sea Scrolls”. It is quite a story, and one not so long ago . . . dating back to I believe the late 40′s. I was in Israel and actually saw the original book of Isaiah (considered a book of prophecy in the Old Testament Bible). This book is also sacred to the Jews. Interestingly enough, the Book of Isaiah, written hundreds of years before Matthew and Luke (which tells about the birth of Christ) speaks about his birth in Chapter 7:14 “Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel”. WOW. So much more to this book . . . you might want to check it out!
Lots of interesting comments. When I see comments about hypocrisy, I just say “yes there are Christian hypocrites.” I look to Jesus for what Christianity is about, not to its imperfect followers.
I don’t understand all the anger about Christianity. If you believe there is no god, then it is all a fairy tale for you and not worthy of any more attention than Santa Claus.
It’s not so much what other believe, I m not angry at anyone being a Xtian, what I am angry about is how they behave, the hypocrisy of their belief and the harm they cause others which stems from their religious beliefs. See the other pages on this site about how believers harm others.
You are the biggest hypocrite of them all. There are extremists in every religion that cause harm to others. Atheists included. What makes your pushing anti-religion on people any different than Christians pushing their relegion on people? It’s ridiculous that you are doing the exact same thing you are against. It is childish and makes absolutely no sense. Some people have faith, some people don’t. Idiots on both sides of the isle will make billboards and tear up Holy books because of thier insecurities in what they believe. One thing is certain, we are all going to die. We all have free will to believe what we want to and advertisements and arguements are not going to change anything.
To the admin there are people all kinds of people doing harm to others in fact it is unfortunately human nature to want to either make people live a certain way or the way you believe they should. Which as a Christian I am against In fact your own billboards suggesting that people who believe in Christ or even do not should act like you do or should think like you do? Hence the hypocrisy that you espouse to rally against . I am not for legislating morality in fact I am against that ,people need to find their own way I did .I died in 1984 and my experience that I will not go into led me to Christ and I don’t preach in fact I rarely talk about it unless a friend asks .I am not member of a religious group nor do I go to church I practice in my own way. You have a right to believe whatever you choose free will I totally support that so please do not attack me or my beliefs. Peace be with you .
Please tell me how, enlighten me . If you can give me ONE reason Christianty is false and I agree, I will turn to atheism.
Because Tom Cruise said so! That’s why. Now pay $1,000,000 to wash all those dead aliens off of you.
John, you can enlighten yourself by reading the book of Hosea in the King James Holy Bible
Hosea 9:13
Ephreim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.
rick, that is NOT a good excuse. AT ALL!
It is a stretch to call Jefferson an author of the US Constitution. He was in Paris during the 1787 Constitutional Convention. While he is definitely one of the most important figures in the founding of the American Nation and the formulation of the ideas on which it was built in the early years, he had no direct involvement in authoring the US Constitution.
You are correct – I stand corrected
I am praying for you. You desperately need God to save you. There will be a day of Judgment and you will stand before a thrice holy God.
So your idea of “being free from religious dogma” is to sit around and bash Christianity. Sad really…if you truly want to be free from religion, then don’t sit around and think about how evil it is. Instead enjoy your life and let other people enjoy theirs. This is an awesome quote “To discriminate against a thoroughly upright citizen because he belongs to some particular church, or because, he has not avowed his allegiance to any church, is an outrage against that liberty of conscience which is one of the foundations of American life.” ~ Theodore Roosevelt
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i find it amusing how ignorant the vocal athiest is. why all the anger? there are radical groups in all walks of life but why does there have to be so much anger toward others?
Tim, if you want to hear some real anger, tune in Christian television and listen to John Hagee or Rod Parsley!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just thought I would give another quote of Thomas Jefferson – one that has been verified. “God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever.”
Thomas Jefferson
About your Jefferson billboard…I can quote Kenny Powers “how’s it feel to fail?”
Science/math/logic leads to an agnostic conclusion. Science has not concluded god or no god. Agnosticism, like science, arrives at the conclusion “We do not know, go either way”.
Theism (yes, I believe there is a God) and atheism (no, I believe there is no god) are beliefs, they are both personal professions of faith in a conclusion not based on science/logic. While an agnostic can claim to be operating on math/science/logic… an atheist operates on faith exactly like a theist does. Since most believers have the desire to spread their beliefs, ergo we have this site which appears to be of the evangelical atheist religion.
The Thomas Jefferson ad campaign is the old example of one religion attacking another. If organized atheists would, like theists, admit they are a faith-based religion, then at least there would be intellectual honesty involved. But an atheist claiming they have the one true belief system and pretending they have arrived at this conclusion using science/logic… puts them in the exact same either clueless or dishonest genre as the Christians who pretend that science backs up their claims about creationism. Both make false claims about science using it to market/justify their religious beliefs.
One of the commenters on Hitler . . . Hitler was an Atheist, with himself as his own deity. Sure he was born into a Catholic family. Stalin was a divinity student, later an Atheist butcher as well . . . So the math is easy, in the 20th century between the two Atheists we have about 40 million people sacrificed . . . Stalin killed more than Hitler, but then again he had more time.
Good job on that quote on the billboard (attributed to Jefferson). God bless us all, it’s proof that evolution is part of God’s plan . . . enabling the shallow stupid to rise to the level of their own ignorance.
What I don’t understand is why this website portrays an attack on Christianity alone? What about all the other religions throughout this world? It is unacceptable to take the mistakes of a few Christian organizations and create this negative image for Christianity it its entirety, which appears to be an agenda of this website. Yes, there are some Christian organizations in this country, and throughout the world, that represent Christianity in a bad way. Don’t blame the rest of us is all I’m saying! That is unjust.
As a former atheist, I am now convinced there is beyond no reasonable doubt for a Creator to exist. As a very logical thinker, I am marveled that science in today’s world has done nothing BUT point to the existence of a Creator. I believe that scientists are baffled and are doing everything in their power to find other answers to most recent discoveries that support the existence of a divine existence.
You are truly a sad organization that appears to take joy in publishing things that are not even checked prior to wasting your time on billboards. Possibly you should find something more worthwhile to go after instead of tearing people down about their faith. Billboards are just ridiculous and to what end have you accomplished?? Appears to me you all have more money than sense… I am sure you will be a flash in the pan organization and I find it funny that you would waste so much time on something so silly. Do you really think people will see that and say oh wow Jefferson said this (which clearly it is proven he has not) and then say well ok I will not longer have my faith??? We are not all changed by such foolishness….. good luck
lol why are the people who created this group so scared of god??? I know they know he is real.. I mean.. why else would they make a group against him lol!!! If they thought he was fake they wouldnt even bother.. just like they wouldnt bother to make a anti tooth fairy site/group. THE BIBLE WARNED US ABOUT YOU GUYS.. SMH!!!
The issue isnt if people are good or can do good without devine help, although believe me it’s alot easier with help from God. Have any of you seen healings done without God’s help or His angels or His helpers?
One important point is Salvation.. . to be saved at the end you have to believe that the big head honcho God sent His son as a sacrifice for each and everyone of us and our sins, to be forgiven of our sins that we commit unknowingly daily against the glory of the Good Almighty God. God is like the Head Wizard that’s what He said , that’s how it is. See Isaiah chapter 53 . Predicted Jesus 735 years before His arrival.
We can do tons of good works , miracles if you how to , but for ultimate Salvation when the end comes , you must believe in the “myth” of Jesus. Most people have silly “myths” they believe in …It should be the Real One.
I’m hoping with God’s grace my little note makes a difference by clarifying certain ideas. Much love. . Kristy
lol why are the people who created this group so scared of god??? I know they know he is real.. I mean.. why else would they make a group against him lol!!! If they thought he was fake they wouldnt even bother.. just like they wouldnt bother to make a anti tooth fairy site/group. THE BIBLE WARNED US ABOUT YOU GUYS… SMH!!!
Most Atheist don’t seem to have a clue when it comes to understanding the point the writer is making when it comes to scriptures.
Most Atheist seem to think that they are thought of by Christians and or Bible verses that only Christians can do good. That could not be farther from the truth. I have personally known many unbelievers who’s behavior has been above reproach, and in some cases they champion the behavior of some Christian’s.
When in the Bible it speaks of good works or good deeds it is speaking concerning mans corrupt nature and inability to redeem himself regardless of how good he is. It is not saying man is incapable of doing good for himself or others. Access to heaven is not based upon how good or bad a person is….. What people fail to see is this Biblical point, that all men have sinned and come short of the Glory of God. And because of this Biblical fact, Mankind need’s to be made clean “sin forgiven “ which can only be done through Gods plan of redemption. God does not accept the goodness of any as sufficient means to go to heaven.
‘When one person suffers from a delusion it’s called ‘insanity’. When many people suffer from a delusion it’s called ‘religion.’-Zen & the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance
Marybeth, when one person kills someone, they are called a murderer. When you murder the whole world, you are called God!
You folks need to do more research before placing billboards. Have a good day, and God Bless.
Manny
Why are you trying to force your beliefs on the rest of the world? If you don’t believe why don’t you just share that with the person talking to you about religion? Don’t go around just trying to stir things up and ruin everything for everyone else. There has got to be a better cause for you, if it is a cause you are seeking. Why not “Clean up the Beaches” or something?
Your now infamous billboard–regardless of who actually made the statement–is an excellent example of your freedom of speech in America. Now, to illustrate your courage and commitment going forward, I challenge you to substitute the word “Christianity” with the word “Islam” and see how far–or what–that gets you. Good luck.
As a Christian, I couldn’t help noticing some of the flaws on your website. You commented on the 10 Commandments, and it appeared to me that all of your information is based almost entirely off of opinion. I loved how you said that Christians worship statues and everything. We don’t. Christianity is full signs and symbols. Statues are one of the ways we can focus on praying and loving. It helps us really think about who we’re living our lives for. The worship of statues is mainly paganism, which was practiced by the Greeks, not Christians. So the next time you’re thinking about how we don’t follow one of our own Commandments, remember this: We don’t worship the statue, rather the what the statue symbolizes.
Submitted to Marquette, MI. Mining Journal September 22, 2011 (printed on 9.24.11)
Susan Harris recently touted the superior attributes of ‘science’ at the expense of ‘religion’ and indicated that the two are distinct and should not be mixed together, implying that science (Latin for knowledge) is fact and religion is fantasy.
Religion, broadly defined is a belief, either singular or corporate in God or in gods, or some other ‘spiritual’ entity such as animism etc. and the manifestations that accompany a particular belief system. However I would like to submit that the very genesis of strictly secular science is faith or belief in the scientifically impossible, a type of religion if you will, just without the help of God or gods.
Science proceeds by the process of hypotheses (guesses), followed up by theories, which are observable and repeatable, and finally by facts, which confirm or contradict the former steps.
However science has certain ‘laws’ which state something that is always true without exceptions. One that most of us are familiar with is “Matter cannot be created nor destroyed.” (1st law of thermodynamics) The law currently declares that energy can be transformed, but can neither be created nor destroyed. Energy is a form of matter, none the less. Why is that avowed? Because no one has ever been able to do either with matter. Why is that important? Because you can’t have evolution, a big or little bang, gravity, a furry ancestor, or anything else without matter. It’s what we and everything else is made of.
This is why Susan Harris and others of her persuasion are such great believers. They have much more faith than any Christian I know of, including myself. They believe that matter just sort of appeared, but don’t have one scientific fact to back any guess or theory about how that occurred. They accept without reservation as scientists or pseudo scientists, the impossible happened somehow, somewhere, someplace, and matter just created itself out of nothing.
For those of us who believe in the God of the Bible it’s easy. “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” Genesis 1:1
Tell me, who has a more rational faith as to the creation of matter, those of us who believe that God did it, or those who believe it just happened by itself ? They both sound religious to me.
Michael Carriere
YOU CAN NEVER DISPROVE THAT THIS IS A NATION BASED ON CHRISTIANITY BECAUSE IT ISN’T TRUE. IF YOU READ ALL CONSTITUTION, BILL OF RIGHTS AND OTHER DOCUMENTS COMPILED BY OUR FOREFATHERS- THEY ALL WERE CHRISTIANS AS ARE MANY OF THE AMERICANS TODAY. THERE ARE OTHER DIVERSE RELIGIOUS GROUPS AS WELL BUT THE ANTHIESTS ARE IN THE MINORITY. EVERYONE DOES HAVE THE ‘CHOICE’ TO BELIEVE AS THEY WANT TO, HOWEVER I AM A CHRISTIAN!
-
———————INFINITY REFUTES “DIVINITY”!
———————-There NEVER was “NOTHING”!
———————-Thus “NOTHING” to “CREATE’!
————————–”Creator” is ‘superfluous’!
———————Find a “Beginning” and ‘then’ prove it!
———————Fairy-tales are for children and idiots!
——————Leave ‘Reasoning’ to “RATIONAL PEOPLE”!
-
In the end, your only hope is that you’re right.
WOW!!! How profound and perfectly spoken.
In response to previous posts: Noone is perfect, we are all hypocrites that is why we need a savior. Believing in Jesus Christ the son of God is the only hope we have. You can’t go to heaven being good or doing good things…noone would make it to heaven if that was the case. How can you not believe in God and His son Jesus? Think about it…look how complex our bodies are…do you think they were put together randomly? That is like saying that someone took all of the parts needed to make a swiss watch, threw them on the ground and it made a swiss watch! That is impossible but creating our universe and humans…that is no accident. That is God in heaven and He gave us a way to be with Him through Jesus.
Under Why Billboards, can you change the word “thit” to “this” Who does the editing?
Sirs,
I became aware of your organization when I recently read about the controversy created by your billboard. I am Chistian by belief , however I am not a narrow minded person as to believe that there is only one path to the truth. Science has always maintained opposition to religion, until recently. I find the scientific efforts to try to verify religous belief rather than to strictly disprove it both exiting and facinating. With the recent scientific verification, much of what I used to reject in the christian belief is being verified. So. I have updated my believe so that the main difference between atheistic and/or scientific belief and christian belief can primarily be explaiined through simple differences in semantics. Truth itself is largley dependant on ones beliefs, so it stands to reason that ones beliefs should be equally dependant upon the truth. If interested, I will be willing to share a theory I have developed based upon the sound principles of science and physics that verifys the monotheastic principles found in Christianity. It may verify much of what you currently believe while at the same time open your eyes to the possibilities found in refineing them with those of Christianity. So, what the hell, what do you stand to lose and what could you gain?……Dean Williams M.A.Ed.
This Email is in response to your Jefferson quote.
I am a Roman Catholic, it is my personal belief,from study of World Religion class in college that . We Christians ,( Denomination unimportant ) should do more good than we seem to be doing, at this crutial time in world history. Which we often neglect to do,in this busy rush and hurry ,greed driven world.
However, Christians are not immune to the economic problems that our country presently faces. Thus instead many more should be volunteering thier time, and talent since monitary treasures even for many of us are presently in short supply,with no immediate turnabout happening anytime soon! Thank You Congress, vote yourselves raises while screwing the American people as a whole. You have done nothing for decades except prove that GREED works, and many of You there in Congress call Yourselves Christians. Many of you Congressmen/women even USED your religious beliefs to acquire Your Congressional seats. Where is the help ,where are the American Peoples jobs?
They are overseas,and South of the border since YOU have taken it upon Yourselves to only care about Yourselves!
Thus what Jefferson had to say is presently neither a Skeptic or Believer issue, let there be Peace between the Two factions, Let Us Together as American citizens turn our joint anger upon Congress and the Present Administration. They are the problem!Skeptic /Believer is a nonissue,putting Amerians and America back to work should be the issue!
As the sign says though, Christians should not be caught sleeping, when the Bridegroom comes! Let us give of our time and talents, and not be caught like those Roman Guards on Easter Morning Sleeping and doing nothing,waiting upon the Lord the Time for Action is Now! Let Us Put Our Faith Into Action.
I just want to voice my opinion. I believe anyone can believe what they want and keep it to themselves. WHY DO ALL of you idiots have to go to such great lengths in taking any and all GOD out of everyones lives. Just keep it to yourselves and don’t make everyone who is a christian suffer because of you ignorance. We don’t make everyone believe in GOD. It’s a choice and all we do is encourage it. We could be a loving country for ALL of the believers and not believers in whatever they want to believe in. It’s a shame that our children and grandchildren can not enjoy or have the choices we had growing up and you people are tearing the country apart. Now I hope you are proud of your ignorance. You will face the music when your time comes.
IF YOU DON’T BELIEVE IN GOD AND JESUS WHY WASTE YOUR TIME AND USELESS ENERGY MAKING A RELIGON ABOUT NOT BELIEVING THEM. AND I SEEN YOU STUPID FUNNY PIX #1 LEARN HOW TO SPELL PICTURES #2 I DID’T USE TO MAKE FUN OF YOUR BELEVES BUT SINCE YOU MADE FUN OF MINE #3 NOW I’M GOING TO START SOMETHING. BEFORE I DID’T REALLY CARE ABOUT YOUR STUPID BELEFS ABOUT NOT BELIEVING IN GOD CAUSE I’M A BETTER PERSON THEN THAT . GO FUCK A COW AND HAVE SEX WITH YOUR WHORE BAG MOTHER THEN SUCK YOU DADS DICK TILL IT FALLS OFF. YOU GUYS ARE THE MOST DUMBEST PEOPLE MAN HAS EVER SEEN. YOUR CLOWNS AND GARDAGE. I NEVER SEEN SUCH USELESS PEOPLE. GO BELEVE IN WHATEVER YOU WANT TO BELIEVE IN BUT DON’T GO CRYING WHEN GOD DENIED YOU LIKE YOU DENIED HIM. THE DEVIL IS GOING TO HAVE SOOOO MUCH FUN WITH YOU HOPEFULLY YOU LIKE GETTING IT UP THE ASS
What a nice Christian post. I think you might be the one “getting it up the ass” acting like that. Thanks for helping their cause. Please do not reproduce.
Rick, I totally agree with you.
http://www.spellcheck.net
The word Agnostic is dervied from the Greek meaning for Ignorant..look it up!
Boy! You showed them! Ha?
Once Christians see your billboard…they’ll jump ship!
Well, when folks go after the Catholics, specially, I go nuts! Hey, I am irreligious, a retired catholic in fact. I also don’t speak French, but that’s my business. I couldn’t care less what people think or believe or whom they prey to or if they pray at all. Just don’t let the government get entangled and I am happy! The first amendment baby!
But some atheist can’t let it go…no! It’s not enough to argue against praying in school or against the pledge of allegiance or whatever! No! They have to get personal. Atheists are snide and scheming, and they think they are smarter and better than people of faith!
Let me tell you what bugs me…
First:
Why is it that it’s always open season against Christians, especially Catholics. That drives me nuts! Remember in NY, the atheist who runs the Empire State Building? He lights the building up for anything and anybody from Mariah Carey to Ricky Martin, however, he said no to Mother Teresa…you know why? Because the Catholics wanted it! And he pulled a Louie De Palma (Danny Devito’s character in Taxi)!
Next:
These Atheists are all GUTLESS!
Look, they are against the recognition and celebration of God…right? Any God? Well, I dare you to put up a billboard mocking Islam! Go ahead, put up some cartoon about Allah or Muhammad.
You pick up times close to Christmas or Thanksgiving in order to remind folks of the validity of atheism. They would not dare to pick on Ramadan.
How about showing Muhammad covered in ants like those atheist cowards depict Jesus in national museums?
I DARE YOU!
Because you know better than that! YOU ARE GUTLESS! Plus you know Catholics will not fight it, you know, turn the cheek business!
PLEASE…I BEG YOU!!! Grow a pair and mock Islam!!! I DOUBLE DARE YOU!
And if you do… give me thirty minutes to draw a crowd and a camera crew because that would be YouTube gold!
In the mean time, happy thanksgiving, Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, Happy Cuanza, and Happy First Amendment!
I would like you to really, really look into and research the history of the making of our nation. It is so deep with religion only a fool would say it isn’t. Actually the forefathers tamed the constitution down a bit from it model constitution which is the one in use by Virginia at the time of the framing of the American constitution. The one in Virginia actually states Jesus Christ’s name it in and what they will do to adhere to His teachings. Jefferson and the others toned it down some but they never meant for God to not be a part of our nation. He is the, well He was the main support beam until minorities like you and the aclu moved Him to the side by abusing your freedoms. I don’t see why the Christians don’t just roll over you people, they easily could if they were not a TRUE peace loving community. They say pray you people, I say abolish, burn and ban you people in whatever order they feel. You should thank God right now I am not in charge……. Yet. I say instead being selfish and trying to get laws and ordinances passed that only benefit you. Why not try to get laws passed that promote moral and well being for everybody. Stop being a douche and worrying about who believes in God and attempt to become productive citizens instead of promoting bias and hate.. Get some lives!!
This website truly saddens me. You guys are leading people astray, and that is the last thing our corrupt world needs. You believe there is no God just because you have no proof that he exsists, but if you would open up you’re hearts you would realize. Nobody is perfect, Christians are no better than anyone else in the world. Because Jesus Christ came to take away our sins is the only way we are all able to ever be forgiven.(For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son) Something has obviously happened that made you turn and run from religion and that is very sad to see. I think most people see God as a vendy machine and just expect him to do whatever they want. But God is our father, not us his boss, he knows whats best for us better than we do! And he is the only one that can forgive our sins, and you have to have some kind of shame after doing something wrong, this is God tugging on our hearts. How did the Holy Bible last so long without change? Why do people search so hard for relgion? Theres so many different types and people try so hard to find it, this is our purpose, to seek God. And if there is no God then why do you refer to him and why are you going through so much trouble to bash him and his word? Thats something to think about. I know God is real and have a solid ground on it, I’m not saying im better than you or that being a Christian means being perfect, but I do know the bible and God helps me and will win in the end (Every knee will bow and confess you are God). So take a look at the bible and you may find God tugging on your heart too! God Bless
Regarding the billboard with the words attributed to Thomas Jefferson, “I DO NOT FIND IN CHRISTIANITY ONE REDEEMING FEATURE. IT IS FOUNDED ON FABLES AND MYTHOLOGY”: the statement not only misquotes him, but the statement itself is in error. Scientific research, including archeology, validates the Bible at many points formerly questioned.
I have heard it said that it takes more faith to be an atheist than to believe in God. You atheists have more faith than we believers have with order all around us indicating a Creator. Design indicates a designer. It takes a lot of faith to believe order can come from chaos without a Prime Mover.
More importantly, God loved us so much that He gave His one and only Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life (a paraphrase of John 3:16). Those who truly believe in Christ will desire to represent Him in ways that will help others know Him, primarily by demonstrating God’s love.
Please knock it off. Positive statements of your beliefs only. Nothing negative about other beliefs please.
Just one question for you rocket scientists. Who do you think put that enormous sun, big beautiful moon and all those stars up there? Your local construction company?
Not everybody that are believers cram Christianity down the throats of those who aren’t believers, so I don’t agre with you cramming it down the throats of us who are. There are plenty of ways for you to have a voice and be heard. Using a billboard do do that was in very bad taste and very egotistical! Futhermore, if you are going to go to the trouble and expense to promote Atheism; make sure you have all the facts! Those of us who believe don’t have to assume what was said and by whom…it’s written in the Holy Scripture.
I just saw the billboard controversy on the news today (10/26/2011). I was brought up Protestant, but even as a child, I questioned the blind ‘belief’ promoted and expected with no rational reasoning behind it. Today at my age of half a century, I believe even more that religion is a tool used to manipulate people. I admire the fact that the misquote (if it is) you acknowledged that it may be incorrect.
But it brought my attention to your site, and the fact that I feel very much as you do. I would listen to Stephen Hawking or Dr. Neil deGrasse Tyson before I would give any attention to a ‘Church’ document. I’m not saying that religions don’t have good points to them, I have just come to the independent conclusion that much of it is a bunch of BS to make the herd manageable.
I will be looking at this site a lot more.
Ok. Please find one thing that is wrong with Christianity. I challange you. And if you are up to the challenge, read the book More Than a Carpenter. Also, I have an argument to evolution real fast. If you believe that evolution really did happen, how do you explain the rule that all scientests have proven true that all cells must come from other cells. You have to have faith that that really did happen, don’t you? That means, you CANNOT blame Christians for saying we have FAITH, if you have faith too. That is just fighting against yourself. I also want you to tell me what flaws you find in history and science with Christianty. And if you do not believe Jesus existed, we have a census proving he WAS alive. Therefore, there are only three options left to believe: Jesus is a 1.Liar 2. Lunatic 3.Lord. But, if he was a liar, he would have died for something that was false and would have known it was false. He also changed people’s lifes, something liars can’t do. Miracles is also something liars AND lunatics cant do. Now all we are left with is option 2 and 3. Option 2 (lunatic) would have been silly to belive in. Jesus was saner than all of us! He had a purpose for everything he did. So all we are left with now is…. option 3! Hmm…. what does that tell you? I am 12 and I have thought about this evidence, and I now have come to Christ. So I challenge all atheists to read this book: More Than a Carpenter. It is (if I have my facts straight) Josh McDowell maybe. But please, walk into this book with a open mind, because if you really do, you figure out that all signs point to an intellegent designer: God.
honey if you do not beleive in god then where will you spend your eternity? are you a devils fool to go to hell? only option i can think of for eternity sorry i dont get it let me know how hot is will be
There is living, breathing truth out there. The Bible isn’t the only book that proclaims the truth. A book my friend read, titled “90 Minutes in Heaven” is the true story of a man who is killed in a car crash. He ascends to Heaven without recalling judgment. A priest prays for the crash victim at the scene of the wreck. The crash victim comes back to life and proclaims the Word and Will of God to others.
It takes 30 seconds to research via google if Jefferson wrote that. The billboard is a monument to your stupidity.
Consider, if all the matter of the universe were put into one big massive blob, the earth would smaller than the tiniest mote of dust on the blob. In other words we are one of the smallest burgs in the universe; we therefore must “not” assume or presume that evolution of man or any other creature occurred on earth, right? To say that dinosaurs ONLY evolved on earth is statistically saying your car will start and run with no motor. Man is arrogant. Since we are one of the smallest burgs in the Univ, it does make sense that someone (many ) have gone before us on other planets in other solar systems and galaxies; thus it also makes sense that its at least “possible” that someone who wanted to have his or her or their own way of living and culture could have broken away (perhaps to escape oppression, or suppression, etc) and traveled a long way to be apart from their not so nice fellow men in some other worlds; thus it can then make sense that such a high tech bird who can travel thru space, and also has the secret to regeneration of the human body to enable eternal life, “COULD” have gathered materials from various places enough to make (create) the earth. wow! Much as you are to an “ant” you can create a garden in your own yard and make it very nice , in this sense you are a creator as well in a smaller mode. THUS while man did evolve , it was not necessarily (and almost 100% probably not) on earth.
FACT: Evolution requires step by tiny step to evolve over perhaps millions even billions of years; but evolutions on earth say it all happened only on earth and all without any real fossil evidence to speak of; there should be TRILLIONs of fossils of transition man from ape to human, but they don’t find it.. what they do find is a little tiny tidbit here and there and those are questionable as well. I.E. A four armed 2 heart man with 4 eyes is much more survivable (survival of fittest , yes?) than 2 armed one heart 2 eyes man as we know ourselves, so WHERE is the fossil evidence of all the infinite mutations that should have had to occur to get to where we are? Or do you subscribe to the “One Magic Leap” from ape to man theory? that is statistically impossible (like your car starting with no motor) and requires FAITH; FAITH is the requirement for religion, faith means with no real evidence of the massive fossil evidence that should be there, we believe that man evolved on and only on earth, if not only on earth, then your are accepting the star traveler of high intellect (god) theory!
Bottom LINE: if you are for PEACE , then you are subscribing to Christ’s true philosophy, if you are for WAR, you are not christian, end of story.. thus some atheist wannabees are more christian, than some Christian wannabees !!!
If we are to live in this world for a purpose of only ourselves and to pass judgement amongst each other than it is hardly a purpose. Every moment of every day we judge each other because of different beliefs or no beliefs that is the reason we have pain and suffering in this life. We fail to recognize what is the truth and what matters in which GOD gave us the greatest gift of free will to choose what is right and what is wrong. “We must love one another or Die” is the truth Enemy or Friend if we look at the option and believe in the Love of life and faith that GOD allowed us to perform this emotion we can become true to each other as well as ourselves. If faith, hope, and Love is taken away from let’s say a child who believe’s they can be an astronaut or they can be a hero when they grow up; maybe a father/husband who believes he can work hard at a business or his job to support his family; most of all someone who is diagnosed with cancer who has been tested & treated unlimitedly and still has the strength to praise God and Have a Love so strong until the last seconds of his life If it is taken away then we might as well not have a purpose and there is no reason for our existence in this world and we are all failures. Let’s end this ridiculous campaign between all of us and for the Love of God stop waisting all this money on Billboards and whatever else to prove each other wrong and put that money to good use like ending hunger, finding cures, shelter homeless people, or help people who need a job to support their families. GOD Bless & Love everyone.
Free will – you can will, desire, or determine to accomplish whatever you want…this doesn’t mean that you are not subject to actual limitations. I can determine to walk on the surface of Mars next year all I want, but it’s not going to happen without the proper support and resources, even with these the timeframe likely would not be met. Limitations exist, that’s the way the universe works. Discovering a limitation does not disprove reality, but instead bounds it. That said, we constantly experiment to find ways around apparent physical and emotional limitations. We design airplanes to get around the limitations of gravity. We design light bulbs to function in what would otherwise be dark. And we take antidepressants to help us feel happy.
That being said, there’s no wiggle room identified in the Bible to get around Spiritual limitations. Here are the limitations that the Bible lays out: we are created beings subject to the sovereignty and will of God; and we are sinners that need to be redeemed from rebellion, or we will face judgment for our treason. Don’t get me wrong, people still try to experiment their way out Spiritual bankruptcy (through good works or appealing to a false god), but the Bible declares all attempts outside of the reliance on and a love for the righteousness of Jesus as futile. You are free to try to experiment through self-deception with an appeal to unfairness, but ultimately disliking the truth along with its limitations does not keep it from being reality.
More on Free Will – To prove free will seems to defeat science or indicate the existence of God. Science is based on the concept that knowing the inputs to a system or process gives predictable knowledge about the output. It follows then, that a perfect knowledge of inputs should yield a perfect knowledge of a given output. This is determinism! So either the universe operates deterministically and free will doesn’t exist, or the universe does not operate on scientific principles. I say as an atheist you have to pick your poison: either the universe is deterministic and free will is an illusion, or science is inadequate to explain the world around us and can’t be trusted. I suppose a hybrid option is that human beings are a special case which possess free will in a deterministic universe, but I think this might be used more by free will Christians than atheists.
Dear Administrator – You know what . . . believe what you want to believe. I’m not trying to change your mind no more than I try or think that I can change God’s. When I pray I submit to His will for my life, if my petitions fit into His grand plan for me, so be it. In the end, I believe He knows better than me so that is where I would rather be. I am not mindless . . . I am a successful well-adjusted person and really love Jesus. Why God destroyed the world with water . . . the consequences of this fallen world are many. Some happen (like a hurricane, etc.) just because we live in an imperfect world, other times it is consequence to outright sin against God. Kinda like a parent would discipline a child. If there is no God, who then are you blaming for the tsunami’s, earthquakes, injustices to the innocent, etc. that happen? Does He love you even when you deny Him? Yes, He does. But it is all up to you. Like I said before, God wants you to seek Him with all your heart because You love Him, not because He makes you do it. I imagine you would feel the same way about any non-God relationship you would have. Say the love of your life . . . isn’t it better that the person loves you freely? So, at the end of the day the beautiful thing is we both get to pick what we believe – one as sure as the other. Time will tell. As for me and my house we will serve the Lord.
If I’m wrong, I have spent my time believing in something-big deal.
If you are wrong, you spend eternity in hell.
And, I’m sure you know, you do not get into heaven or saved by good deeds.
If Christians put up a billboard putting down athiests, you’d give us hell, you do it and it’s freedom of speech-funny how you use what you want from the constitution…
I thought freedom of religion meant I can believe what I want and you what you want. Yet your group puts christians down…Never once have I ever heard in any church anything negative about athiests….never even talked about them at all. Guess that’s what makes us different-we don’t have to put other beliefs down to get our “ratings” up! go figure…
I rarely become involved with organizations such as yours, however, I find so many of the comments, etc. posted on your website to be so blatantly misleading that I feel I must respond to reveal to you your errors.
Your references to the writings of Thomas Jefferson and John Adams are incomplete and misleading (either inadvertant or premeditated on your part) which can only result in creating doubt as to the veracity of your entire site and ultimately your organization. By using only selected passages to support your position you are reverting to a tactic known as “Revisionism by Omission”.
Your example of a John Adams quote in which he stated “This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it” is a prime example of the revisionists ploy of ‘Revision by Omission’. This Adams quote is taken from a letter he wrote to Thomas Jefferson on April 19, 1870, in which Adams illustrated the intolerance often manifested between Christians in their denominational disputes. Adams recounted a conversation between two ministers he had known. A review of the entire conversation must be examined to understand Adams’ meaning and intent:
I verily believe I was as wise and good seventy years ago, as I am now. At that period Lemuel Bryant was my parish priest, and Joseph Cleverly my Latin schoolmaster. Lemuel was a jocular and liberal scholar and divine, Joseph a scholar and a gentleman, but a bigoted Episcopalian of the school of Bishop Saunders and Dr. Hicks; a downright, conscientious, passive obedience man in church and state. The parson and the pedagogue lived much together, but were eternally disputing about government and religion. One day, when the schoolmaster had been more than commonly fanatical, and declared, “if he were a monarch, he would have but one religion in his dominions,” the parson coolly replied, “Cleverly! you would be the best man in the world, if you had no religion.” Twenty times, in the course of my late reading, have I been on the point of breaking out, “this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there was no religion in it!!!” But in this exclamation, I should have been as fanatical as Bryant or Cleverly. Without religion, this world would be something not fit to be mentioned in polite company—I mean hell.” (John Adams in an 1817 letter to Thomas Jefferson, The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States , Vol 10, p 254. ).
Not only is this misrepresented as being a reply from Jefferson to Adams, it is noted correctly as an “Oft-Misquoted Adams Quip” in your own reference. In Jeffersons’ reply to Adams he did state “If by religion we are to understand sectarian dogmas, in which no two of them agree, then your exclamation on that hypothesis is just, ‘that this would be the best of worlds if there were no religion in it.”.
I attempted to locate the Jefferson letter to William Short on August 3, 1822 you reference on the website but have been unable to locate such a letter containing such a statement.
It has been alleged that Thomas Jefferson called himself a Deist. An analysis of the historical record indicates not only did Jefferson not refer to himself as a Deist but called himself a Christian: “I am a Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus.” (Jefferson, The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Vol XIV, p. 385, 1904)
Jefferson was fully cognizant of the many wrongs, corruptions and transgressions committed in the name of Christianity but still held to his Christianity.
“To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines, in preference to all others.” The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Vol X, p. 380.
I realize this may not be posted.
Dr. Chambers
Dr Chambers – thank you for clarifying the passage by Jefferson. I retrieve the quotes on my site from other sites, and I should be more vigilant in researching the quotes. Your comment is noted and was worthwhile.
Bruce G
Why didn’t you make/haven’t you made a billboard saying “Atheists fail again – Backyard Skeptics misquotes a US President” or something along those lines. I hardly think what is found on the front page of this site is an apology.
Immanuel Kant said believed that we should not act by any principle that we couldn’t wish to become a universal principle, if you can’t wish everyone to apologise with “sorry, but [...insert possible defenses for apologies made here...]” you shouldn’t make an apology like that.
False but accurate is not an apology and never will be. Genuine Christian repentance [a very good model for apology] would seek not just to come to know one is wrong, and admitting it, but stepping in the other direction also. You should point out the redeeming features of Christianity (there are many).
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RELIGION IS ORGANIZED CRIME
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Rational people know for a FACT that “Religion” absolutely ONLY SURVIVES because innocent undefended unprotected children are FORCED by parents and others to believe the lies of pedophile thieving slavers who enrich themselves on the toy and candy money they extort from the children who are told they were born “evil sinners”!
As a result of this horrible disgusting lie, the children develop an Inferiority Complex which handicaps them for the rest of their lives!
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INFINITY REFUTES “DIVINITY”!
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So that doesn’t really explain how a strong-willed, confident skeptic and scientist, such as myself, becomes a Christian at age 25. It may provide insight to why a person could go through the cultural motions of Christianity without actually believing the Bible. But actual believers that understand the content of their belief, are convinced that it is true, and develop a trust and affection for God because of it are a different set of people all together.
Jocta, well said! Children have the same religion as their parents. I used to believe in Santa Clause until I started seeing life with my own eyes.
Dear Mr. Bruce Gleason:
First of all, although I do not agree with your Agnostic views, you have a right to express them in a free society like America although we are losing that privilege under Hussein Obama. You may place all the bulletin boards up you want, but I do ask that you do your historical research. Thomas Jefferson made the insane statements you attribute to him, i.e. “I do not find in Christianity any redeeming features. It is based on fables and mythology.” You obviously do not care about truth and wish to publish lies. I realize you do not believe the Bible, but in it, God says that “liars will have their place in hell.” You are a liar and have not placed a bulletin board repudiating your distortion of truth. Therefore, you also become aaptical of your veracity. It is one thing to be wrong, but not to admit it is criminal. Frankly, you are joke. By the way, the word Agnostic comes from the same root as “fool”. The Bible says “The fool has said in his heart, there is no God.” Unfortunately you have made yourself appear to this reader as a documented fool I will refuse your future writings.
Jocta says:
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——————–RELIGION IS ORGANIZED CRIME
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Rational people know for a FACT that “Religion” absolutely ONLY SURVIVES because innocent undefended unprotected children are FORCED by parents and others to believe the lies of pedophile thieving slavers who enrich themselves on the toy and candy money they extort from the children who are told they were born “evil sinners”!
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As a result of impossible disgusting lies promulgated by thieving pedophiles the children develop an Inferiority Complex and an addiction to a form of insanity which handicaps them for the rest of their lives!
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The children’s innate ability to critically evaluate is corrupted and replaced with insidious ‘faith’ in atrocious lies perpetuated by criminals!
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INFINITY REFUTES “DIVINITY”!
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CORRECTION: I apologize, I meant to say Thomas Jefferson did NOT make the statement you attribute to him. Three-letter words often are important…just like GOD.
Why are you not posting my correction? I apologized that I left out the three letter word NOT when I meant to say that Jefferson did NOT make the statements you attribute to him. Three letter words are important, for instance, GOD!!
“America is all about speed. Hot, nasty, badass speed.” -Eleanor Roosevelt, 1936
I think a billboard with this quote would be more effective. Not trying to help your cause or anything, just want to see a billboard with this on it. Just sayin.
Hurrah! How about a FB page so I can like you and share
yes we have a group on FB called Backyardskeptics and a twitter account called backyardskeptic (no s)
I find it hilarious a group of individuals who refer to themselves as “rational thinkers” irrationally and idiotically posted a misattributed quote.
Perhaps next time you should remember, “pride comes just before the fall”.
Too funny.
the humanist view and attitude is the most destructive force of our times. failed man as the center and purveyor of knowledge. here is another example of the lack of scuples of the secular humanist in that openly lying to the public for a self centered purpose is considered a rational motive. honor and trust have little or no meaning in the humanist community
What I find the most amusing about the “atheist movement” is that they are always fussing about God. Why do they spend all their time and energy on something they don’t believe exists? Perhaps next they can finally settle the debate concerning Santa Clause and the easter bunny.
I lack very little and wish for even less; but If I could change history just a little I’d ask for more lions.
The Jefferson Lies
This coming Spring, Thomas Nelson Publishers will release a new book by David Barton: The Jefferson Lies. This book exposes many of the modern lies about Jefferson that have been concocted, promoted, and perpetuated by the Secular and Academic Left.
The need for this book was recently made evident by an atheist group’s California billboard allegedly quoting Jefferson condemning Christianity. (See article for more information.)
This quote used on the billboard first surfaced in 1906, when anti-religionist John E. Remsburg authored Six Historic Americans, attempting to show that six notable national leaders were anti-Christian Freethinkers (i.e., atheists, of whom he claimed that Jefferson was one). [1] According to Remsburg, Jefferson had declared:
I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world and do not find in our particular superstition [Christianity] one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded upon fables and mythology. [2]
The only problem with this quote is that it doesn’t exist. It has never been found in any Jefferson writing; [3] yet it remains one of the many lies about Jefferson told by the Secular and Academic Left over the past century. (Remsburg also attributed other bogus quotes to Jefferson, but even though they are easily disproved, they are still used today.)
Strikingly, Jefferson’s position on religion is actually the opposite of what is often claimed today. To see the authoritative documentation of this fact, look for The Jefferson Lies (to be released in the Spring), and discover from Jefferson’s own writings not only the truth about this particular lie but also many other Jefferson myths and lies that we were steadily fed throughout the twentieth century.
How is “in your face” Atheism any different than “in your face” Christianity. There is no difference. Your “God” is “Nothing”. It’s ridiculous. Let’s all spread the word of Nothing.
Perhaps the “in your face atheism” does not entail telling people that then deserve an eternity of torture if they do not accept their dogma. An atheist values logic, education and critical thinking, not “nothing”.
Sounds like scientology to me.
It’s great that you give Christians a place to defend their faith!
But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed. For it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.”
I Peter 3:15-17
“Beloved, while I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Jude 3-4
I see that everyone here is talking about the bible and wether or not some verses in the bible are true, contradictory, or immoral. What I don’t understand is why people think that the bible proves wether or not a god exists. The bible doesn’t prove anything. However, SCIENCE can prove any of your questions. Many might not be able to understand the complicated physics and biology, but I can assure you that brilliant scientists like Stephen Hawking, and Richard Dawkins, have proven theories about how life was created without God.
(Also, for all of you idiots who think evolution is JUST a theory, I would like to remind you that a theory must be proven, and if it is not proven is it a postulate.)